CES Director and Wife Leave Mormonism - John and Brooke (Lark) McLay (Rebroadcast) | Ep. 2024

When a CES Director loses faith, the floor drops out from under more than a career. John McLay spent years screening teenagers for seminary teaching positions and conducting worthiness interviews to enforce orthodoxy for the Church Educational System. Then he lost his own faith. The 2024 rebroadcast of the Mormon Stories Podcast interviews with John and Brooke McLay, originally recorded in 2012, offers a documented look inside the CES hiring machine and tracks the personal devastation that followed their exit. The updated episode confirms what many transition stories suggest but few confirm publicly: the marriage did not survive the shift, and Brooke McLay has since rebuilt her life as a social media food photographer in Salt Lake City while John declined to participate in the follow-up.

The CES Hiring Gauntlet and Marriage Requirements

The McLays entered the CES pipeline as orthodox believers. Brooke described herself as doctrinally meticulous, capable of reciting specific prophet quotes verbatim, while John pursued the career with the fervor of someone seeking what he called the "safest" path within Mormonism. Their interviews with John Dehlin revealed a selection process that functions more like a security clearance than an academic job application.

Candidates endure a multi-year pre-service program where marriage status operates as an unwritten employment requirement. Brooke recalled instructors drawing comparison charts on whiteboards: single versus married candidates. The message was unambiguous. Rings mattered as much as resumes. The process culminates in an interview with a general authority where spouses participate initially, then wait outside while the candidate answers worthiness questions. Brooke sat in a hallway holding their week-old son, Andrew, while John confessed to pornography use and testified of the Book of Mormon to secure the position.

Dan Bell, a CES administrator involved in hiring during that era, allegedly referred to himself as the "destroying angel." The system maintained deliberate ambiguity with candidates until final offers arrived to avoid legal or emotional liability.

Faith Crisis Inside the Machine